Tema de Viquipèdia:La taverna/Ajuda

He rebut aquest missatge de l'user Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick i la veritat és que no acabo d'entendre què vol dir-me. Em podeu fer cinc cèntims ? Sembla que ens demana ajut per fer una llista de dirigents, pel que m'ha semblat entendre:

"Hi Walden69. I work on Commons, Wikidata and FR Wiki. Since few time, we are working on FR Wiki to display a list of people that manage a place. Today, we use the algorithm presented on fr:Module:Liste des dirigeants successifs. You can find the template on fr:Modèle:Liste des dirigeants successifs and an application on fr:Loffre. I find you because you create Loffre nine years ago. The user Alt0160 is again working on the module, and I plan to do edits ; but I suggest you can contact users on CA Wiki that will be able to make an adaptation. With this kind of template, we are able to share datas. Users from FR Wiki will easily work with places in France and south Belgium as users from CA Wiki will can do the work with places in Catalonia or Spain... We are also able to display sources."

"Hola Walden69. Treballo a Commons, Wikidata i la FR Wiki. Des de fa un temps, a la Viquipèdia en francès estem treballant en mostrar llistes de persones que dirigeixen un lloc. Actualment, fem servir l'algoritme presentat a fr:Module:Liste des dirigeants successifs. Pots trobar la plantilla a fr:Modèle:Liste des dirigeants successifs, i un exemple d'ús a fr:Loffre. T'he buscat a tu perquè vas crear Loffre fa nou anys. L'usuari Alt0160 torna a treballar en el mòdul, i tinc previst editar-hi; però et suggereixo que contactis amb els usuaris de la Viquipèdia en català que puguin adaptar-la. Amb aquest tipus de plantilla, podem compartir dades. Els usuaris de la Viquipèdia en francès podran treballar fàcilment en llocs de França i del sud de Bèlgica, i els usuaris de la Viquipèdia en català podran fer el mateix amb llocs de Catalunya o Espanya... També podem mostrar les fonts."

Faig ping a l'@Amadalvarez:, que probablement li interessarà.

Gràcies. Recordo que vaig fer Loffre en la meva "campanya" per fer articles sobre municipis francesos. Jo no sé res d'algoritmes, sóc de lletres, je je je.

Bon dia. Sí, s’està provant amb èxit un programa i, com sé que hi ha talents en totes les versions lingüístiques, he vingut a parlar-hi perquè durant mesos he estat capturant els alcaldes actuals a Wikidata i apareixen aquí gràcies a les vostres infobox.

Hi @Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick. This is @Amadalvarez the author of some cawiki infoboxes.

In my opinion, the ontology you use to upload dirigeants is not correct. The city / region / state should not have the list of people in charge. The correct structure is:

• In place item (municipality, region,...): Càrrec ocupat pel cap de govern (P1313) with the name of the function (ex.: Major of Marsella) + Cap de govern (P6) with the person item of "present person in charge"
• In "Major of Marsella" item: Titular del càrrec (P1308) with the list of dirigeants as you have now in place item.
• In person item: Càrrec (P39) with the name of function (Major of Marsella) + P580 + P582 + other qualifiers.

This is the way that {{Infotaula geografia política}} runs for any kind of

To create a list of dirigeants we use {{Llista alcaldes P1308}} + our standard WD recovery Module:Wikidata which handle list of multivalue statements and its qualifiers. However, it is not really used because we have just a few municipality articles with this kind of list.

I propose to move this discussion to a better place in WD to agree about the correct ontology with more WD editors participation. Did you discuss this topic previously in WD ?. If so, let's go there.

Thanks to contact with us.

@Townie, I invite you to participate, if you don't mind.

Hi. No in fact I see since more time we do a list with P6. The actual mayor has the best rank. It is logic : for this kind of affirmation, we should bring a source, others when there is a reelection, so it is not logic to erase this work when a new person take the place. This is why we have lists. Create a page with mayor of X just add work of translation where we finally have few people of different languages. I am OK for very big places, but not for small willages. That is why in doc of P6 we have end date allowed for allowed qualifiers constraint. It suppose we can do lists.

Under the point of view of data structure, the Divisió administrativa (Q56061) concept has the property Càrrec ocupat pel cap de govern (P1313) to define the name of the rol of person in charge. You can use:

an specific entity →

< Bordeus (Q1479) > Càrrec ocupat pel cap de govern (P1313) < Alcalde de Bordeus (Q27898073) >

a half-generic →

< Nantes (Q12191) > Càrrec ocupat pel cap de govern (P1313) < Maire (Q382617) >
De (P642) |< Nantes (Q12191) >

generic →

< Nantes (Q12191) > Càrrec ocupat pel cap de govern (P1313) < Maire (Q382617) >

For easy access reason, performance reason (and historical reason, too), the structure item has the P6 with ONLY the present holder of charge.

However, if you want to store the list of person in charge, you should use the first modality of P1313, it is, you have to create an specific item for the charge, because the list of people is -under data structure view- a property of the charge, not a property of the city. Even more, in this case of person in charge is used to have lists, but the tendency in long list cases is to created them via backlink to avoid redundancy information and long lists inside the items. For instances, not all the books of a writer/painter are in Obres destacables (P800), but you can get searching for "Q254 haswbstatement:P31=Q2188189" for instance or with a wikidata list template from a wiki article.

What you say about small/large cities is included in the correct ontology. In cases of small town, is perfectly possible to have a P6 with the current person + P1313 with generic value and nothing else.

I think you must stop the activity until do not agree with other WD experts about the correct ontology.

Thanks